Okay...I'm directing this at Larry03052, even though I'm certain he's dropped out of sight to celebrate the recent electoral win of Donald Trump-contrary to what he said in his last post. I have to begin by first calling you out on the name-calling. So EVAUnit4A has a differing opinion from yours. Does that give you the right to call them a "bozo"? HELL NO. You only prove that YOU are the bozo when you resort to name-calling because you can't be bothered to listen to someone else's opinion on a subject and actually give it some consideration. PLEASE NOTE I never said anything about agreeing with it, just listening and considering it. At least with the others who have commented, they've shown a willingness to listen and at least consider the subject, and they DID NOT resort to kindergarten-style name-calling. Clearly, you have no experience in proper debating (I can only guess that you got an 'F' in that subject in high school or college because you very likely put down your debate opponent as you did EVAUnit4A).

Now to address your so-called counterpoints:

> There are NO places that are "gun free zones". Even with all the metal detectors and picture-taking equipment that sees through clothes at airports, you still get weapons, including guns, onto planes. 96% failure rate. 96% and those guys were told they were going to be tested.

There's a little something called progress......ever heard the saying, "if you build a better mousetrap, nature will simply evolve a smarter mouse?" YES, there are guns that can still be smuggled onto planes, even with the metal-detecting equipment currently being used in government buildings and airports. But PROGRESS allows for the development of more effective technology to detect them. Progress will always involve one-upmanship between gun-owners and gun-control technology....in English, that means that eventually gun manufacturers will simply design better, less easily detectable guns which will then prompt the government to devise better detection equipment...and so forth and so on. While you may be correct in that there are no places that can be truly gun-free...that will slowly change, given enough time.

> The United States, like it or not, is on Earth, it affects and is affected by the rest of the world. They cannot be separated, not when some clown from Queens can turn into a rabid killer from reading ISIS literature on the internet. Pretending otherwise is something only a Bozo would do.

Really? Gee, I thought the United States was on the Moon. Thanks for providing that information. On a less sarcastic note, yes, the US affects and is affected by the rest of the world. Only a "bozo" would believe otherwise..and last I checked from their post, EVAUnit4A is very far from being a bozo. Its also true that we cannot just separate ourselves from the rest of the world, whether in terms of economics, or internet. But at the same time, to even attempt to block the ISIS literature from the internet, regardless of the good intention of not allowing "some clown from Queens" to become a "rabid killer" would go against everything this country is supposed to stand for. Do I like hearing about KKK websites indoctrinating white youth to committing murder against blacks? No I don't. Could their racist propaganda be blocked from the internet? It can be. Should it be? No, because as much as I hate hearing that KKK propaganda contributed to the murder of black people in a church, the idea that their speech, disgusting and hateful as it is, could be blocked from the internet goes against Free Speech. Same principle applies in the case of ISIS propaganda. Its deplorable, disgusting, and it smears the good name of Islam by claiming to be its true representation, but its also Free Speech, and cannot simply be revoked just because we don't like it, otherwise we end up on a slippery slope where censorship runs amuck.

> If you mean did he start the fighting there 10000 years ago, no, he didn't. But that's a red herring, and well you know it. I'm tired of listening to Obama pretend-fighting straw men, I have even less respect for you doing so, you do it badly. As for "conservatives" let me point out that Liberals conveniently forget that when Bush left office there was no ISIS, and Al Qaeda had been largely neutralized. The "war" was over.  ISIS spun off what was left of Al Qaeda in the power vacuum Obama left there when he withdrew all the American peacekeepers instead of doing what every foreign-policy expert told him he had to do, which was to keep a residual force to prevent the rise of just such a power. But Obama was fixated on "ending" the war, which to him meant no troops and to hell with the consequences. Well, the consequences so far are 400,000 dead, and tens of thousands of young women, even children, sold off for rape. Every drop of that blood is on Obama's hands, as is every drop spilled in Orlando - excluding the kid the alligator killed, anyway. So don't try to rewrite history with me, Clinton is trying desperately to do that, but only Liberals are bozos enough to believe her, chronic liar that she has always been. "Benghazi was caused by a video" indeed!

Okay, let's break this down further.
FIRST, Bush had NO BUSINESS going to war with Iraq back in '03. He only did that because a) free oil and b) his daddy couldn't get the job done back in '91. If Bush hadn't LIED to the American people, and LIED to the United Nations about those damned elusive WMDs, then there would've been no invasion, no insurgency, no Al-Qaida In Iraq (AQII) and hence no ISIS.

SECOND, the war didn't end with Bush. Osama Bin Laden was still running loose in Pakistan, we were STILL bombing Afghanistan in the vain hope of getting a lucky kill (namely, Bin Laden himself), we were dealing with an insurgency in Iraq caused by Bush trying to link Saddam Hussein with Al-Qaida (no link was EVER found), and we faced a world that was really pissed with us because of that invasion (that whole French fries becoming 'Freedom fries'....yea, that was the result). Yes, we finally beaten AQII, and yes ISIS spun off from what remained of it, but the split happened because ISIS showed a willingness to go to extremes even Al-Qaida didn't dare commit to...namely attacking OTHER MUSLIMS. Al-Qaida's goal was to unite ALL Muslims under the banner of Islam, but as you may know...or may not, as the case more likely is...is that Islam is split into two different branches...Sunnism and Shi'ism. Sunnism is centered on the belief that an appointed spiritual leader or caliph could spread the practices of Islam. Shi'ism believes that only a direct descendant of the prophet Muhammad could do so. They've fought and killed each other as often as they've killed Christians and Jews.

THIRD, Obama didn't "leave a power vacuum" in Iraq by withdrawing the troops. He had already announced that major combat operations were at an end, but he also knew that the new coalition government in Iraq would still require some military help in maintaining itself. Remember, it wasn't just Sunnis and Shi'ites in Iraq, there were also the Kurds to consider in the new government. Obama tried not to repeat the mistakes of the Bush senior and Clinton presidencies by seeking an agreement that would've kept a small US troop presence within the country to act as auxiliaries to the new Iraqi army and help them train their new troops. The Iraqi government pussy-footed around, stalled, and gave half-hearted replies to such a point that Obama decided to pull ALL the troops out. In essence, it was Iraqi intransigence and not President Obama's desire to end US commitment in Iraq that resulted in the rise of ISIS. Obama did listen to his foreign-policy experts..even that Dick named Cheney..but the Iraqis held out until it was too late for them. They're the ones paying the biggest cost in their foolish decision to not respond to the offer, having to fight to retake Mosul from ISIS.

FOURTH, how the F'ING HELL is the bloodbath at the Orlando nightclub Obama's fault? You trying to say its because he became an ardent support of same-sex marriage and gay rights, and that because of his support, the SCOTUS made their decision which overturned every "religious liberty" law the states passed? For that matter, how is the murder of tens of thousands of women and children not otherwise sold off for slavery and rape Obama's fault? Oh right, I forgot. The Red Line speech he directed at Bashar Al-Assad after he used chemical weapons on his own people. Unless my history is incorrect..and because I watch CNN almost religiously, it shouldn't be....it was Russia that saved both Syria and the US by offering to remove those chemical weapons. Admittedly, given what Russia would later do in Ukraine and what they've been doing alongside Assad in places like Aleppo..it was a stupid idea to let them assume responsibility...but as the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20. Do you REALLY think the American people, after suffering from 5-6 years of unrelenting bloodshed in Iraq thanks to Bush, and little attention to the bloodletting in Afghanistan all in the attempt to capture a Bin Laden who was living it up in Pakistan, would've been willing to plunge into yet another Middle Eastern conflict, even if it meant putting a stop to Assad and saving thousands of Syrians who only wanted to change their government to a more democratic country? If you truly believe that to be the case, why not join the army and go over there right now....good luck avoiding Russian bombs and Syrian government gunfire.

LASTLY, relating to your comment about Hillary Clinton. The whole 'Benghazi was caused by a video' thing....honestly. You might want to look at her staff for blame for that situation. Thing is, there was no reliable information as to why the attack happened, and because of that lack of solid information, speculation took over and all kinds of ideas were floated about. The fact that there had been a video which had inflamed Muslims for its defamation of Muhammad simply played into the list of plausible causes, especially when some acts of violence that WERE tied to the video did happen. As for your "chronic liar that she is" remark. Please enlighten us liberal "bozos" by listing all those lies you allege she spoke. Don't worry, I'll wait..though I'm sure you'll take more time actually looking for them than listing them. I'm truly surprised you didn't blame the kid being killed by the alligator on Obama. Many people through his terms as POTUS have blamed him for everything from the trivial-yet-untrue to the truly idiotic...many even blamed him for their hair loss (real bozos, them).

> I do. Can you name any Hindu terrorists? Any Canadian terrorists? How about Navaho terrorists? Kwakiutl terrorists? Buddhist terrorists? Can you name another religion besides Islam that states in no uncertain terms that unbelievers should be put to the sword? Have you completely missed the fact that these terrorists are Muslim, and claim in all honesty they are murdering in the name of Allah. The problem, Bozo, is in Islam. No, not every Muslim is a terrorist, any more than every Catholic believes the Pope is infallible, but that doesn't change the fact that the problem is arising from an Islamic group because of their interpretation of the Qu'ran. It is not a problem of easy access to guns (which, I notice, even Britain, a country that has all but completely outlawed guns, still have enough of to off a member of Parliament, their gun bans obviously don't help) nor is it caused by lack of funding for gays or transgendered people suffering from uncertainty about which bathroom to use.

"The problem is in Islam". You sound just like Michael Flynn, the guy who will be on Trump's cabinet, when he called "Islamism" a "cancer". "These terrorists are Muslim, and claim in all honesty they are murdering in the name of Islam"."The problem is arising from an Islamic group because of their interpretation of the Qu'ran". That's the key word....interpretation. You're singling out a small group of extremists who have twisted Islam to fit their true agenda and trying to say that the ENTIRE religion of Islam is the problem, then trying and failing to back away from that statement by using the word interpretation. Let me give you a brief history lesson. Ever heard of something called the Spanish Inquisition? Jews and Muslims were tortured and even killed because they refused to convert to Catholicism in great bonfires known as 'auto-da-fes', which in Spanish means 'acts of faith'. Fast-forward to the twentieth-century and the attempts by Britain and France to carve out colonies in the Middle East and its no wonder Muslims have a deep distrust of Christians from "the West". Add the Crusades into the mix and its no wonder every single Muslim isn't out for Christian blood. Luckily, there are moderates in power in many Middle Eastern countries who keep that minority of really pissed off Muslims from gaining too much power...ISIS notwithstanding. But every day that sees anti-Islamic rhetoric, anti-Muslim legislation, and even attacks on mosques across America sees those handfuls of dissident Muslims gain more popularity as the champions of Islam..and it sees the moderates lose more support as a result. Donald Trump represents the epitome of Islamophobia and I forsee that we will experience another 9/11 with him in the White House. Why? Because his rhetoric, his calls for a ban on Muslim immigration to the US to escape the bloodbath in Syria and Yemen, and his blind support for Israel. As for transgenders and the bathroom issue, do you not believe they have the right to protest the laws which discriminate against them? Do you think its fair that despite the SCOTUS decision protecting same-sex marriage, many businesses will refuse to provide service to homosexuals based on their personal religious beliefs?

> Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Crusades weren't nice. Can you come up a good reason to kill innocent people that's even a little more current? Like why those gay guys had to die last Sunday? How many of them fought in the Crusades, BOZO?

Again with the name-calling. You honestly think calling someone a bozo is gonna make them suddenly "see the light", get down on their knees and proclaim that you were right all along? Better keep dreaming, sir. No, the Crusades weren't nice. The first one especially was horrible because, despite the knight-commander's pledge to not harm the women and children..who happened to be Muslim, and living in Jerusalem...his own knights went behind his back and slaughtered ALL OF THEM. Even worse, he didn't attempt to stop them or reprimand them afterwards. You want a little more current, okay, how about the Holocaust? Killing six million people just because they were Jewish and had been made the scapegoat for Germany's economic depression and defeat in the First World War. There was no good reason for that massacre....none at all! Do you have a good reason why several students had to die at Columbine High School? Or Virginia Tech? How about Aurora? Charleston? As for the Orlando murders, those men DID NOT HAVE TO DIE. But some homophobe who likely did vote for Trump (he was actually at a Trump rally) had an issue with gays..whether religiously inspired or otherwise, we'll likely never know.

> God, I have to laugh about Liberals reaction to Trump. They are so unused to anyone speaking off-the-cuff, without a teleprompter programming every robotic word they utter. Yes, he's an adult, far more so than any Liberal. Firstly, he's honest, and he's only saying what we are all thinking. Secondly, he's not speaking ex cathedra when he campaigns, he knows perfectly well he can't put the nuances of national policy into a sound bite, no matter how often Obama does, badly. When he has taken a detailed, nuanced position, as he has in a number of foreign-policy pieces on his web site you never bothered to read, he has done so with the help of foreign-policy experts - many of them the same people who told Obama not to pull all the troops out of Iraq. He makes far more sense than Obama ever did and Clinton sounds like she's running for President of Mars, she's so disconnected from Earthly concerns. And, make no mistake, Trump will undoubtedly do a lot of things I disagree with, some of which I will disagree intensely with. But he's not Clinton, and that's good enough for this round, since neither Obama or Clinton have ever done a damned thing I do agree with, and the amount of damage they have done to America and Americans is incalculable, and it's a cost our great-grandchildren will still be paying thanks to bozos like you. Trump can't wave a magic wand and fix everything Obama and his henchmen did, no one can. But at this point, I'll settle for anyone who can stanch the bleeding. All Clinton plans to do is open up another artery and lecture us while we bleed out of that one, too!

Trump? an adult. PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH! He's honest? Oh really? PolitiFact would call BS on that claim. He got more 'Pants on Fire' ratings than any other Republican or Democratic candidate for president. Plus, "he's only saying what we are all thinking". So you mock a disabled person every day? You talk about grabbing women by their genitals, too? If ANY Democratic candidate had said even that much, you conservatives would be calling for them to be lynched, so excuse me if I think you're full of shit saying "he's only saying what we are all thinking" and let me further add that neither Trump nor you know what I'm thinking, so how can either of you claim to be saying what "we are all thinking" when you have no f'ing idea what I'm thinking? Yes, he spoke off-the-cuff and every time he did, he revealed the kind of person he truly is...mocking disabled people, calling for protesters to be beaten up, casually talking of grabbing women by their genitals...he went so far off-track his own campaign manager...who should be fired....had to take away his twitter account to keep him from tripping on himself. He never had a "detailed, nuanced position" on anything except how much of a misogynist he is. How can he have experts when he made the claim he knew foreign policy better than the generals who have to make the life-and-death decisions every day? Obama made MUCH MORE sense than Trump EVER did. But I get it. You voted for him for the same reason roughly half the country did...he's not Hillary Clinton. That seems to be the only thing you give a damn about, never mind that he's more unstable than she is, and will be in control of the nuclear launch codes. God help us all if Putin insults him on Twitter, for he'll not think about the consequences, but simply push the Big Red Button in his kindergarten tantrum and kill us all. Maybe YOU are the reason you feel Obama has done nothing you agreed with, which wouldn't surprise me as you would be in the same company as the entirety of the GOP. They would support something only until the president supported it, then they'd fight tooth-and-nail to keep it from happening simply because he supported it. Our great-grandchildren will be paying the costs of the unwise decision you and many others took, voting for Trump for the simple and stupid reason that he isn't named Clinton or Obama.

> Then why will you not support stopping those who have already committed to it in the name of Allah? Are you enjoying hearing about girls being sold for rape? About people being burned to death? About the cultural extinction being faced by the Kurds and Yazidis? Actually, I think you really are, I think all Liberals do, they are so cold, so heartless, and so selfish I can conceive of no other reason why they continue to allow the problem to grow and fester while bitching and moaning about trivia in thiscountry! If it was American black girls being sold off for rape, would Democrats not care about that? Actually, I think so - because you clearly don't care that a registered Democrat - one who would have unquestionably have voted for Clinton knowing she would only further empower the Jihad - shot up a bunch of Democrats doesn't seem to have sunk in. They are killing your own people now, Bozo! Don't you care even a little?

In answer to your question which you directed at EVAUnit4A in response to their statement, and which they didn't answer, likely by choice, let me ask you a question. Why are you so hell-bent on eliminating Islam from the face of the Earth? Before you try to say that you don't want to eliminate all of Islam, just the extremist version, let me point out that your whole ranting-as-responses have come off as suggesting that Islam is the enemy and should be eradicated. Did you ever stop to think that your kind of thinking, and Trump's rhetoric, could be giving the extremists the very tools they need to recruit people already living him, whether of Middle Eastern ancestry or not, to commit acts of terrorism? Do you dare to claim that liberals like myself actually enjoy hearing about girls being sold into sexual slavery? We don't. You have the temerity to suggest we get our kicks off learning on the news that someone was burned to death? Again, we don't. You ask about cultural extinction, yet you seem to ignore the fact that we've committed acts that can be viewed as attempts to expire Native American culture..so we cannot claim the moral high ground on the matter of the Yazidis and Kurds. Do you want to prevent their cultural extinction? There is a way, simply allow them to seek asylum in the US. Ooh right, I forgot. You voted for a man who talks of building walls, deporting 12 million Hispanics and banning Muslim immigration to America. Guess the Kurds and Yazidis are screwed, aren't they? You want to call liberals cold, heartless and selfish, yet you support a party that claims to be pro-life but only gives a damn about you until you're born, then you're on your own, and if you're lucky enough to survive to 18, then you can enlist and possibly be called upon to serve in a war in some distant country all in the name of profit..whether in oil or some other resource..while claiming it was for American security....then if you're lucky enough to survive that war and come home, you're once again on your own. YOU have allowed the problem to grow and fester by supporting obstructionist Republicans and Tea-liban politicians while this country's infrastructure goes to hell.

It is apparent that gun-free zones do not always work....but it should be apparent to you, especially, Larry03052...that the laws the states have enacted...known as the 'Guns Everywhere Laws' have also not done anything to improve the situation. Carrying a gun to a church...which is supposed to be a House of God...would not make me feel any safer, especially if I profess my belief in a different way. Claiming to need guns to protect against government "tyranny" is also pretty stupid as despite the fears expressed by such alt-right loonies as Alex Jones and pedophile ex-rocker Ted Nugent...Obama hasn't actually taken your guns away. But thanks to you...I may need to go out and stock up on guns in preparation for the tyranny named Trump.

Now see? I countered every counter you made.....and I DIDN'T RESORT TO PLAYGROUND NAME-CALLING TO MAKE MY POINTS CLEAR. 

To everyone else...I apologize for such a long commentary...but a) I needed to set Larry03052 straight and b) I needed to school him in how to actually debate without sounding like the very thing he keeps calling people who disagree with him, though I think in that case, there's no hope for him.

bagera3005....lemme just say.....cool starship images!